QUEST – RISK, ADVENTURE AND THE SEARCH FOR MEANING With John Graham

Howard Brown: 00:00:03

Hello, it's Howard Brown is the Shining Brightly

Howard Brown: 00:00:06

Show. Oh, I've got an amazing guest today. It's incredible. If

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you want to talk about that renaissance man, I've got that

Howard Brown: 00:00:14

man for you. John Graham. Welcome. Welcome to the show.

Howard Brown: 00:00:17

Welcome to shining brightly. How are you? Alright,

John Graham: 00:00:19

fine. How are you? Thank you. Thank you for thank

John Graham: 00:00:22

you for having me on.

Howard Brown: 00:00:23

I'm so pleased. So I have to tell you when I met

Howard Brown: 00:00:27

John, I mean, he's got so many stories, and we just don't have

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enough time to cover them all. So we're gonna give you the

Howard Brown: 00:00:32

highlight reel. And then you're gonna go out and get his books,

Howard Brown: 00:00:35

and then you're going to contact him and you're going to support

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his nonprofit because this guy is just lived a little bit,

Howard Brown: 00:00:41

right? At 16. John, you know, shipped out on a freighter, and

Howard Brown: 00:00:45

he really hasn't looked back. He's been all over the world.

Howard Brown: 00:00:49

He's been in apartheid South Africa. He's been to Alaska a

Howard Brown: 00:00:52

whole bunch of times doing some dangerous stuff we're going to

Howard Brown: 00:00:54

talk about. He's worked for the Foreign Service. This guy is a

Howard Brown: 00:00:59

cool cat, man and deli. He's still going. So we've got lots

Howard Brown: 00:01:02

of lots of cool stuff to share with you as well. But before I

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do that, John, I always ask, tell us something maybe we don't

Howard Brown: 00:01:09

know about you that you don't often share. Oh,

John Graham: 00:01:12

well. I can say that I was the first person ever

John Graham: 00:01:16

to climb up the north wall of Mount McKinley, Denali claim.

John Graham: 00:01:20

It's so friggin dangerous that no one's ever done it since.

Howard Brown: 00:01:25

Wow, that's incredible. When did you do

Howard Brown: 00:01:28

that? Well,

John Graham: 00:01:29

I was a kid that I was 1963. Yeah, it's been a long

John Graham: 00:01:33

time. And it was called McKinley before. McKinley. Now it's

John Graham: 00:01:36

Denali. Now it's Denali. But it's the climate is so

John Graham: 00:01:39

dangerous. No one we were so a bunch of idiotic young kids from

John Graham: 00:01:43

a climbing club. And we didn't understand the dangers. But we

John Graham: 00:01:47

just walked right through. Unbelievable,

Howard Brown: 00:01:49

because I actually had the territory of Alaska for

Howard Brown: 00:01:52

this company called avid technology. We changed how

Howard Brown: 00:01:54

broadcasting was done from analogue to digital. And every

Howard Brown: 00:01:57

chief engineer that I ever met at a television station, had a

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pilot's licence and a plane. And so because I was up in Alaska, I

Howard Brown: 00:02:04

got to circulate in a plane never climbed it. So I don't

Howard Brown: 00:02:07

know if I could that you did some crazy stuff as well. So

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share with me, you know, some some background of God, you

Howard Brown: 00:02:14

know, as a 16 year old venturing out into the world. What was

Howard Brown: 00:02:18

that all about? Well,

John Graham: 00:02:20

it was a crazy thing I won't go into the whole

John Graham: 00:02:24

half hour is a complicated thing. But But I ended up

John Graham: 00:02:27

winning an essay contest when I was a kid in high school. And

John Graham: 00:02:30

the prize was a trip on a freighter to the Far East, but

John Graham: 00:02:35

then the shipping company had booked all their passenger

John Graham: 00:02:37

space. So they said, oh, we'll take you all right, because you

John Graham: 00:02:40

have to be a member of the crew. I said, Oh, that's great. My

John Graham: 00:02:43

mother, however, who was a Catholic, a very staunch

John Graham: 00:02:46

Catholic, by the way, said okay, 16 year old 17 year old John is

John Graham: 00:02:50

going on a freighter now those days no containers, right? I

John Graham: 00:02:53

mean, is this, a freighter was a big ship with a bunch of 60

John Graham: 00:02:57

really tough guys on it. And so, it took me a long time to

John Graham: 00:03:02

convince her to let me go because because she figured

John Graham: 00:03:04

that, you know, I was gonna like lose not only my virginity, but

John Graham: 00:03:08

just you know, it was a tough time. But she let me go, God

John Graham: 00:03:12

bless her. And I wonder where they're and boy, I saw a world

John Graham: 00:03:18

that was a whole lot bigger and more colourful than than white

John Graham: 00:03:21

bread, Tacoma, Washington where I grew up. Man, I got into a

John Graham: 00:03:26

first bar fight. I mean, it was just I was 16 years old doing

John Graham: 00:03:29

this. And it was like, it changed my life. All of a

John Graham: 00:03:32

sudden, there was a world out there that was big and, and huge

John Graham: 00:03:35

and exciting. And it I never looked back as you. As you said,

John Graham: 00:03:39

I never looked back in my life became one adventure after the

John Graham: 00:03:43

next from that moment on.

Howard Brown: 00:03:45

It's incredible. I mean, you've just got yourself

Howard Brown: 00:03:48

into places and experiences that you know, a 16 year old kid, you

Howard Brown: 00:03:52

know, sophomore, junior in high school. I mean, you're you're

Howard Brown: 00:03:55

still wet behind the ears. You're a young buck, you know?

Howard Brown: 00:03:59

Yeah,

John Graham: 00:03:59

yeah. That's yeah, I I try. I put down what

John Graham: 00:04:06

happened in my memoir. We'll talk about that later. But it

John Graham: 00:04:10

was pretty amazing. I was incredibly naive. And the seamen

John Graham: 00:04:15

were determined to teach me all the lessons they knew I would

John Graham: 00:04:18

never get in school. And they did. I will leave it at that.

Howard Brown: 00:04:22

You got the life lessons I got the important life

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lessons and a whole bunch of Big Brother seamen that were you

Howard Brown: 00:04:28

know watching out for you teaching Yeah, all the good

Howard Brown: 00:04:30

stuff.

John Graham: 00:04:31

Yeah, they took care of me they took care of me

John Graham: 00:04:34

when we get into that bar fight. I passed out and one of them put

John Graham: 00:04:38

me on the on the shoulders and carried me back to the ship

John Graham: 00:04:40

before I got cut to pieces. So yeah, it was cool.

Howard Brown: 00:04:43

Let me ask you this, because I find this

Howard Brown: 00:04:45

interesting that that did you find these wars that you are a

Howard Brown: 00:04:48

chorus minder, do they find you?

John Graham: 00:04:50

Ah, I found them. I look I deliberately look for

John Graham: 00:04:53

them. Yeah. I hitchhiked around the world after I graduated from

John Graham: 00:04:58

Cal Well, I hitchhiked to In North Africa when I was a

John Graham: 00:05:02

sophomore in college, because it was the only shooting war, I

John Graham: 00:05:07

could find I was climbing mountains in Switzerland and,

John Graham: 00:05:10

and the colonial war in Algeria was still going on, and we just

John Graham: 00:05:14

ended. So I said, I gotta get down there. It's only a few 100

John Graham: 00:05:17

miles away. So I hitchhiked down through Spain, through Morocco.

John Graham: 00:05:21

And I showed up at the Algerian border and there was no border

John Graham: 00:05:24

guy because there was a friggin war going on. So I put an

John Graham: 00:05:28

American flag on my chest. Really smart move. Because if

John Graham: 00:05:32

they thought I was French, they kill me. Right? They were

John Graham: 00:05:34

fighting. Yeah. So I put this American flag on and I walked

John Graham: 00:05:39

across in the war in Algeria, because it was the most exciting

John Graham: 00:05:43

thing I'd ever done. And sure enough, I mean, people saw that

John Graham: 00:05:47

American flag and the the rebels or the commandos or whatever the

John Graham: 00:05:51

soldiers would point their guns at the driver and ordered him to

John Graham: 00:05:55

take me wherever I wanted to go. Wow. So yeah, that was my first

John Graham: 00:06:01

my first war was Algeria. And I graduated from college and I

John Graham: 00:06:05

hitchhiked around the world and I deliberately got a rare they

John Graham: 00:06:10

call it a press pass from the Boston Globe press credentials,

John Graham: 00:06:13

you know, yes, yes. And so I reported on I went to Cyprus,

John Graham: 00:06:18

where there was an active war going on. Then I went to Laos,

John Graham: 00:06:23

and went up to the Plain of Jars where the people were fighting,

John Graham: 00:06:26

and they went to Vietnam, where America's war was just starting,

John Graham: 00:06:30

you know, and it was like that. And then 10 years later, I came

John Graham: 00:06:35

back to Vietnam, but this time as an adult as part of the war,

John Graham: 00:06:40

our war in Vietnam, doing all kinds of difficult and

John Graham: 00:06:46

thoroughly dangerous stuff.

Howard Brown: 00:06:48

To China. We back then we are you still an action

Howard Brown: 00:06:52

junkie? It what was driving all this?

John Graham: 00:06:54

Oh, man, I tell you, I gotta be careful. I mean,

John Graham: 00:06:57

you know, I'm driving, I'm driving to the next town and my

John Graham: 00:07:00

gas tank is almost empty. And so I'll say to myself, you know, I

John Graham: 00:07:04

got about an 80% chance of making it to the gas station,

John Graham: 00:07:09

but 20% chance that they won't, yeah, let's do it. Let's go for

John Graham: 00:07:12

it. My wife goes crazy. She thinks I'm nuts. What are you

John Graham: 00:07:16

doing? I can't help it. I don't know. I was, it's a gene. I was

John Graham: 00:07:20

born with it. And the fact of the matter is, Howard is that.

John Graham: 00:07:25

Gosh, by the time I was 40 years old, I figured I had almost been

John Graham: 00:07:29

killed. I died a violent death real close a dozen times. And I

John Graham: 00:07:35

kept walking away from it. So what else was I supposed to

John Graham: 00:07:37

think was that I was invulnerable. So I could keep

John Graham: 00:07:40

doing all this stuff. Because, you know, I kept walking away

John Graham: 00:07:44

from it. So every time I took a risk, it was a bigger risk than

John Graham: 00:07:47

the one before. It was crazy. It all changed. And I gradually

John Graham: 00:07:55

moved myself to the side of the angels, but it took a while.

John Graham: 00:07:58

Yeah.

Howard Brown: 00:07:59

So I have to tell you, I one of my other guests

Howard Brown: 00:08:02

was a firefighter. And he said something so astute and it just

Howard Brown: 00:08:06

reminds me of what you're doing. He said, You know, as a

Howard Brown: 00:08:09

firefighter, we are taught to run towards fire, not away from

Howard Brown: 00:08:12

it. It's a safety. And that's the same thing with you, you are

Howard Brown: 00:08:15

running towards the action, you put yourself in the middle of of

Howard Brown: 00:08:19

bullets and bombs and real real danger. And I mean, it's just

Howard Brown: 00:08:25

incredible. But you're you kept on going and doing it. And what

Howard Brown: 00:08:29

are some of the lessons? What are the takeaways and seeing all

Howard Brown: 00:08:31

these war torrents and these revolutions and all that?

John Graham: 00:08:36

Yeah, that's a difficult question. Because the

John Graham: 00:08:38

lessons changed for me. In the beginning, my 20s, you know, the

John Graham: 00:08:43

lessons were there was nothing more important than adventure

John Graham: 00:08:47

and risk taking. That's what life was about. The adrenaline

John Graham: 00:08:51

rush, but it was more than you know, you probably experienced

John Graham: 00:08:54

it yourself. But you know, when you're young you think you take

John Graham: 00:08:58

more risk. You're you know, you're you're 17 at 21 years

John Graham: 00:09:01

old, you're taking it but it was different for me. For me, it

John Graham: 00:09:04

became a way of life. And then I kept walking away from stuff I

John Graham: 00:09:07

mean, both whistling by my ears via contract to kill me. I can't

John Graham: 00:09:13

walk away from it. So but the thing was, was that that was

John Graham: 00:09:16

what my life was about. Everybody else's life was like

John Graham: 00:09:19

kind of dull, but this is incredible. Well, that that did

John Graham: 00:09:24

shift that that did shift and the lesson I learned after a

John Graham: 00:09:29

battle in Vietnam. We were surrounded I was the adviser to

John Graham: 00:09:34

the city called way which some of your listeners viewers may

John Graham: 00:09:39

have heard of the Tet massacre? Yes. In Vietnam. Well, I was the

John Graham: 00:09:43

city where I was the I was an advisor to the mayor and also

John Graham: 00:09:49

had a lot to do with some pretty rough counterintelligence

John Graham: 00:09:53

operations and intelligence stuff and we were surrounded on

John Graham: 00:09:57

three sides by the North Vietnamese during what was

John Graham: 00:10:01

called the Easter offensive, this is three years before

John Graham: 00:10:04

Vietnam actually failed. North Vietnamese. I don't know if

John Graham: 00:10:08

people remember the history almost we were at it three years

John Graham: 00:10:11

earlier. And we're stopped just short. But I was in the city at

John Graham: 00:10:14

the time. And we were surrounded in all the American troops and

John Graham: 00:10:17

left as part of a peace agreement. So just a couple of

John Graham: 00:10:21

us so called civilians who are civilians, we were armed to the

John Graham: 00:10:24

teeth, and we knew how to use the weapons. But still, we were

John Graham: 00:10:28

civilians, and there were only four of us and we were and the

John Graham: 00:10:32

South Vietnamese Army had panic and refugees were screaming

John Graham: 00:10:35

through the city, it was my job to take care of 300,000

John Graham: 00:10:38

Screaming impoverished refugees and the North Vietnamese guns

John Graham: 00:10:43

were blasting away and it was a incredible situation. And then

John Graham: 00:10:50

the finally the skies cleared a little bit and American fighter

John Graham: 00:10:54

bombers from carrier jets came roaring over the city. so low

John Graham: 00:11:00

that I could practically read the name of the pilot on the

John Graham: 00:11:02

cockpit. And they finally blasted the North Vietnamese

John Graham: 00:11:06

tank just six miles short of the city. So I didn't die that time

John Graham: 00:11:12

but I damned I did. And it it was after it went so much after

John Graham: 00:11:17

that, or in the middle of all this everybody had panic right

John Graham: 00:11:25

but not me because I love it. The worst thing is get i You

John Graham: 00:11:28

want me in your foxhole man. And I was steady and I was helping

John Graham: 00:11:33

put the city back together getting people to run the police

John Graham: 00:11:38

forces and stuff but because everybody else had panic. And

John Graham: 00:11:42

and I finally realised that the problem was deserter is from

John Graham: 00:11:46

from the South Vietnamese army. Were terrorising everybody else.

John Graham: 00:11:50

So I screamed at the mayor that he had to set up a firing squad.

John Graham: 00:11:54

I remember in the middle of all his guns going off, you know,

John Graham: 00:11:58

people shouting and screaming, I put my fist on his desk, bang,

John Graham: 00:12:01

bang, bang, you got to sit up a firing squad. I didn't know if

John Graham: 00:12:05

it work or not as a deterrent to start shooting these. These

John Graham: 00:12:09

these kids and they were kids. They were farm boys drag wound

John Graham: 00:12:13

off their patties maybe the month before and shoved into the

John Graham: 00:12:16

South Vietnamese Army and then shoved into the face of a highly

John Graham: 00:12:20

professional North Vietnamese attacking columns. And they were

John Graham: 00:12:24

scared out of their wits. So a lot of them got drunk and and

John Graham: 00:12:29

they were causing a huge problem. So I set up his firing

John Graham: 00:12:33

squad. Not knowing whether it would work. And then I realised

John Graham: 00:12:39

somehow something about firing squad. I was unaware that I

John Graham: 00:12:43

never believed in. I was in a war whose aims I thought were

John Graham: 00:12:48

false even evil. I was in a war where the only because of the

John Graham: 00:12:54

adventure. And here I was ordering the deaths of farm boys

John Graham: 00:13:00

innocent foreign boy who just got drunk and panicked in a

John Graham: 00:13:03

moment of total chaos and it suddenly hit me that that's what

John Graham: 00:13:09

my life had come down to the adventure and all that wasn't

John Graham: 00:13:14

just me and evil I was now in a position of real authority with

John Graham: 00:13:17

the power of life and death. And and I was misusing it. I was

John Graham: 00:13:23

causing people to die making things worse was that there? My

John Graham: 00:13:26

rest of life gonna be like that. It was the lowest point in my

John Graham: 00:13:30

life. I mean, I just put my head down and and I actually cried. I

John Graham: 00:13:34

think I just I realised how shallow my life had become.

John Graham: 00:13:40

Living a life just her adventures not giving a you

John Graham: 00:13:43

know, what about anybody else or their concerns? Or life or death

John Graham: 00:13:47

just one more adrenaline rush after the other. It was a long

John Graham: 00:13:52

road back out. It took me a long time to crawl back out of that

John Graham: 00:13:56

hole.

Howard Brown: 00:13:57

It sounds like you're an amazing storyteller.

Howard Brown: 00:14:00

I'm so captivated listening to it. I guess we have talked but I

Howard Brown: 00:14:03

want to we could talk for hours on it because I'm a history buff

Howard Brown: 00:14:06

and you've been there. But also you've again you face death.

Howard Brown: 00:14:11

Again. I faced death for cancer stage four cancer twice in my

Howard Brown: 00:14:15

life. But I mean, I think the Alaska story of the second ship

Howard Brown: 00:14:19

I said you thought you're gonna die

John Graham: 00:14:21

right? Once again. Share that share that story.

John Graham: 00:14:25

Share that story with you want that story? Oh, I do. I do. I

John Graham: 00:14:28

do. Yeah. Okay. All right. Look. I'm crawling back from that

John Graham: 00:14:33

hole. That moral spiritual hole in Vietnam. Long story short, I

John Graham: 00:14:39

ended up with the United Nations and my life had changed by them.

John Graham: 00:14:42

Now I really was committed to doing good integral and in fact

John Graham: 00:14:46

I did I I'm proud to say that I helped end apartheid system of

John Graham: 00:14:50

institutionalised racism and South Africans. And I helped

John Graham: 00:14:55

achieve independence for some countries in Africa because that

John Graham: 00:14:58

was my job. I wasn't Africa policies of the United Nations

John Graham: 00:15:02

for our country. And so, you know, my life had really

John Graham: 00:15:08

changed. And it changed so much that I realised I couldn't work

John Graham: 00:15:11

for anybody anymore. Because sooner or later, there'd be some

John Graham: 00:15:14

you know, what, who would tell me to do something awful, I

John Graham: 00:15:17

wouldn't do it. So I quit. I quit at the top of my game,

John Graham: 00:15:21

really, because the State Department loved me because they

John Graham: 00:15:24

nobody could kill me. I was doing difficult, dangerous

John Graham: 00:15:26

stuff. I was really smart at it. So they I was there a fair

John Graham: 00:15:31

haired boy and I quit the top of my career naively thinking that

John Graham: 00:15:37

I would somehow save the world, I would write books, I would

John Graham: 00:15:40

give speeches, I would convince people and as soon as I opened

John Graham: 00:15:44

my mouth, all the bad guys returning the good guys, the US

John Graham: 00:15:49

and the Soviet Union would start getting along. I was pretty

John Graham: 00:15:53

naive. But I thought that I could make a real effort to do

John Graham: 00:15:57

that. I hadn't thought about money at all. And so I quickly

John Graham: 00:16:01

spent all of the the severance pay the State Department had

John Graham: 00:16:06

given me and I had a wife and two kids and so I had to get

John Graham: 00:16:10

some money. And and I have a friend came in, says, Look,

John Graham: 00:16:15

John, you've always had a good gift of gab. They pay money to

John Graham: 00:16:20

lecture on cruise ships. All you have to do is open your mouth on

John Graham: 00:16:23

the cruise ship, and they pay you absurd amounts of money. So

John Graham: 00:16:26

long story short, I, I applied, and I got a job lecturing. The

John Graham: 00:16:32

cruise ship Princeton damn in 1980, October 1980. All I had to

John Graham: 00:16:38

do was give some simple as soon as me simple lecture on foreign

John Graham: 00:16:42

policy, they didn't care. I also found out once I got on board

John Graham: 00:16:46

that ship that part of my job was to look handsome in my

John Graham: 00:16:49

tuxedo, in Walt's little old ladies around the dance floor. I

John Graham: 00:16:53

didn't realise that. So there I was on this cruise ship, and I

John Graham: 00:16:58

got to take one person with me. So I took my then 13 year old

John Graham: 00:17:01

daughter Mallory with me on the cruise ship. And we're about

John Graham: 00:17:06

three days out from Vancouver, when we were heading out into

John Graham: 00:17:11

the Pacific heading for Japan. And we were 150 miles off the

John Graham: 00:17:15

Alaska coast in the middle of the night is a warning on the

John Graham: 00:17:20

loudspeaker system. The intercom system in the state rooms, says

John Graham: 00:17:24

it's been a small fire, but fire has been put out no worries. But

John Graham: 00:17:28

you know, so I rolled over go back to sleep. 10 minutes later,

John Graham: 00:17:31

the voice comes on again, this time with a sense of real

John Graham: 00:17:34

urgency to it and it says look, yeah, we want you all to come up

John Graham: 00:17:37

to the ships lounge because there's some smoke and fires out

John Graham: 00:17:41

but we'll serve free drinks and come on up to the lounge just to

John Graham: 00:17:44

be safe. Totally disarming method. So Mallory and I grew up

John Graham: 00:17:50

there I only have a thin windbreaker and so does she and

John Graham: 00:17:53

we don't even take our life is which was really stupid. And

John Graham: 00:17:58

we're up on the ships lounge but it's full of smoke. So people

John Graham: 00:18:00

are extremely out on deck as to clear night and the Gulf of

John Graham: 00:18:05

Alaska, you know, Northern Lights and all that in the sea

John Graham: 00:18:07

was fairly common at the time. But any fool could look back

John Graham: 00:18:11

where we'd come from, and see that the smoke was getting

John Graham: 00:18:15

blacker and thicker. In other words, the fire had not been put

John Graham: 00:18:18

out. Oh, people are starting to panic, people are starting to

John Graham: 00:18:23

get really worried. We're all herded to the back of the ship,

John Graham: 00:18:27

the stern of the ship. And I know this sounds like a famous

John Graham: 00:18:31

movie, but that ships orchestra comes out. And they were playing

John Graham: 00:18:36

near my guide to the but but they started playing show tunes

John Graham: 00:18:39

from Oklahoma smoke getting blacker thicker, and that was

John Graham: 00:18:43

clearly over the size of the ship. And finally at about two

John Graham: 00:18:47

in the morning, the captain heard says we got to go to

John Graham: 00:18:49

lifeboat station. So we all go to lifeboat stations. And at

John Graham: 00:18:55

that moment, the fire burns through all of the glass windows

John Graham: 00:18:59

in the ship's lounge and dining room and the fire takes a big

John Graham: 00:19:02

gulp of oxygen and flames. Excuse me, flame sure shoot 30

John Graham: 00:19:08

feet into the air. I mean this the centre of the ship becomes a

John Graham: 00:19:12

torch and I can see these flames reflected off my daughter's

John Graham: 00:19:15

eyes. And now people are really freaking out as you might

John Graham: 00:19:19

imagine. So the captain comes out and he's in his full dress

John Graham: 00:19:22

uniform with a white silk scarf. I mean really they do this as

John Graham: 00:19:25

part of the lava sea or something I guess. And there we

John Graham: 00:19:30

are ordered to abandon ship. So by a miracle all 550 people on

John Graham: 00:19:36

that boat, except for the the captain and a few other people

John Graham: 00:19:40

who stay behind temporarily are in these lifeboats and they're

John Graham: 00:19:45

lowered. And there's no loss of life. I mean, it's a miracle but

John Graham: 00:19:50

the seas that are calm, but our lifeboat is terribly overcrowded

John Graham: 00:19:54

is only meant for 60 people Mallory counts 90 in the

John Graham: 00:19:57

lifeboat but it was good because it was cool. out there. So being

John Graham: 00:20:01

shoved together was not bad. But the problem was was that the

John Graham: 00:20:05

typhoon was coming on typhoon burnin, I think it was called.

John Graham: 00:20:09

And they warned us the night before that the typhoon was

John Graham: 00:20:12

coming. So they distributed, you know, seasick pills at dinner.

John Graham: 00:20:16

And we knew the storm was coming, but now we weren't in

John Graham: 00:20:19

some huge cruise ship. We were in little lifeboats, eight of

John Graham: 00:20:23

them, I think. And they, we began being separated from each

John Graham: 00:20:27

other. We had no power in the lifeboats and no oars, we were

John Graham: 00:20:31

just drifting. And it was the middle of a night, but we had

John Graham: 00:20:35

no, no radio, no lights, no flares, nothing. And I tried to

John Graham: 00:20:42

get the radio to work using Morse code, because I knew Morse

John Graham: 00:20:46

code. And it didn't work. So we were out there. And then at

John Graham: 00:20:53

dawn, helicopters arrived from bases, Canadian and US Air Force

John Graham: 00:21:00

and Coast Guard bases in Alaska and Canada. And they start

John Graham: 00:21:04

lifting people off the lifeboats, in metal chairs at

John Graham: 00:21:08

the end of cable. It's kind of like a county fair. There's a

John Graham: 00:21:12

ride where kids go spinning around. Yeah, yeah, like that

John Graham: 00:21:16

one of those chairs. And so they work as fast as they can, but

John Graham: 00:21:20

it's slow work one at a time. 550 people. And it became seven

John Graham: 00:21:25

o'clock, eight o'clock, nine o'clock noon, about one o'clock

John Graham: 00:21:29

I see Mallory's the last female lifted off the lifeboat tough

John Graham: 00:21:33

little bugger. And she, I was so proud of her because she never

John Graham: 00:21:38

he was as calm as I was, he was just really cool. So she gets

John Graham: 00:21:41

lifted off. And I'm left in the lifeboat with eight other guys.

John Graham: 00:21:47

The helicopters can't fly anymore, because now the typhoon

John Graham: 00:21:51

has hit his head on. And it's suicide to fly a helicopter in

John Graham: 00:21:55

those conditions. So there we were. And he was getting rougher

John Graham: 00:22:00

and rougher. And we were trying we were bathing like crazy.

John Graham: 00:22:04

seasick, his dogs dying of hypothermia. But the key thing

John Graham: 00:22:08

was the light. And remember, we have no lights and no flares, no

John Graham: 00:22:12

reflectors. And even with a bit of daylight in a storm, it's

John Graham: 00:22:16

hard enough to find us and no helicopters meant that the only

John Graham: 00:22:19

source of rescue was three, two or three Coast Guard cutters.

John Graham: 00:22:24

Small boats had arrived. And we're doing criss crossing

John Graham: 00:22:27

desperately looking for, for us the last in the storm. They

John Graham: 00:22:32

might find this by daylight, but they would never find us at

John Graham: 00:22:35

night, I figured from a mountaineering that we had seven

John Graham: 00:22:38

or eight hours to live before we were all dead from hypothermia.

John Graham: 00:22:42

But most of the end we did as soon as it was dark. As soon as

John Graham: 00:22:45

it was dark, there was no hope of finding as at least with the

John Graham: 00:22:49

light. There was some hope. So there we are to half an hour

John Graham: 00:22:54

until dark. I had a whole life of of staring death in the face,

John Graham: 00:23:00

always walked away from it. And I thought my life could run out.

John Graham: 00:23:06

I don't see any way out of this. I mean, the odds are like one in

John Graham: 00:23:09

1000. And so I said, I started talking to God, I wasn't I'm

John Graham: 00:23:17

still not a particularly religious person. But I started

John Graham: 00:23:21

talking to whatever I felt was God say, and I wasn't praying I

John Graham: 00:23:25

was mad. I said, Wait a minute. Here I am. I turned my life

John Graham: 00:23:28

around after that horrible episode in Vietnam, I helped end

John Graham: 00:23:31

apartheid. I quit the Foreign Service to devote my life to

John Graham: 00:23:35

service to making the world a better place. And now you guys

John Graham: 00:23:39

are wiping me out it makes no sense at all. It makes no

John Graham: 00:23:41

freakin sense at all to wipe me out.

John Graham: 00:23:45

And I get this message. I get this message no one else in that

John Graham: 00:23:48

boat heard anything, of course, but I did. And this voice came

John Graham: 00:23:52

booming through this wild storm. And basically say you got to get

John Graham: 00:23:56

serious. You you left all this do gooder stuff to start

John Graham: 00:23:59

lecturing on cruise ships because you panic over money.

John Graham: 00:24:02

You get out of this lecture on another cruise ship. You gotta

John Graham: 00:24:05

get serious about your ideals, whether they're real or not. And

John Graham: 00:24:09

if your ideals are not if it's just, you know, Bs and you might

John Graham: 00:24:13

as well die out here because the next 50 years won't be worth

John Graham: 00:24:15

living. But if you really commit to a life of service well we'll

John Graham: 00:24:21

see what we can do. You didn't see that but you got picked up

John Graham: 00:24:26

by a cutter Yeah, as soon as I looked up to the storms and

John Graham: 00:24:30

Okay, okay, I gave up I gave up as soon as I said that this

John Graham: 00:24:34

Coast Guard Cutter now mind you the visibility is like 100

John Graham: 00:24:36

yards. This Coast Guard Cutter comes crashing through this wild

John Graham: 00:24:39

storm or we get rescued. I mean, that's it. I know. It sounds

John Graham: 00:24:44

like a crazy story. It was It is a crazy story. But that's where

John Graham: 00:24:46

it's true. As soon as I said yes, yes. Okay, I give up. I

John Graham: 00:24:51

give up i give up and that's what my life will be this Coast

John Graham: 00:24:54

Guard Cutter comes and I never looked back. I'll say that for

John Graham: 00:24:57

myself. I never look back Back, am I

Howard Brown: 00:25:01

it's incredible story. And I mean, I thank you

Howard Brown: 00:25:04

and your daughter, you know, shared that with you and she's

Howard Brown: 00:25:07

everyone's okay, it's really just true strength and you turn

Howard Brown: 00:25:11

it around. So I'm gonna ask you to put on your sunglasses,

Howard Brown: 00:25:15

because we're getting down to the end of the show. 30 minutes

Howard Brown: 00:25:17

goes by quickly. So I want to shine the spotlight on you.

Howard Brown: 00:25:21

Okay, you are shining, John Graham, and I want you to tell

Howard Brown: 00:25:24

people how they can get a hold of you. I want you to mention

Howard Brown: 00:25:26

your books, and I want you to mention your nonprofit. And then

Howard Brown: 00:25:29

you'll share some inspiration and we'll close out the show.

Howard Brown: 00:25:32

Oh,

John Graham: 00:25:32

wow, I can do all that. Okay, right. You can.

John Graham: 00:25:36

There's John Graham and I invite communications. My personal web

John Graham: 00:25:41

address is John graham dot org. My, my email is Graham at

John Graham: 00:25:45

giraffe giraffe.org. That's because I direct nonprofit

John Graham: 00:25:49

called the giraffe heroes project, which is all about

John Graham: 00:25:53

finding people who are sticking their necks out and telling

John Graham: 00:25:58

their stories and the giraffe website. I urge you to get on it

John Graham: 00:26:02

because it's amazing. The stuff that we do is draft.org draft

John Graham: 00:26:07

that work. So it's giraffe.org John graham.org. The book, my

John Graham: 00:26:12

last book I've written five now is quest. Risk adventure in the

John Graham: 00:26:16

search for meaning and it's kind of like the story of my life

John Graham: 00:26:21

going down as far down as it can go and then coming back the

John Graham: 00:26:26

other side. And I'm I'm friggin 81 years old and still going

John Graham: 00:26:30

strong. And there we are. And as to leaving words of wisdom,

John Graham: 00:26:35

Well, hell, I've been long since that, that wisdom is a difficult

John Graham: 00:26:40

commodity. And I'm always slow to give it but I'll tell you

John Graham: 00:26:44

this. The most important thing that any of us can do is the

John Graham: 00:26:49

search for meaning personal meaning in our lives. Some

John Graham: 00:26:53

people find meaning as I did in adventure that didn't go very

John Graham: 00:26:58

far. Some people find meaning in money, some people find meaning

John Graham: 00:27:03

in power. But the real source of meaning the real source of

John Graham: 00:27:07

meaning that really work that sticks with you that makes your

John Graham: 00:27:12

life work is service. Find a way to serve, can be anything could

John Graham: 00:27:17

be something in your local town, it could be cleaning up a local

John Graham: 00:27:22

river, it could be fighting climate change could be

John Graham: 00:27:25

combating violence against women could be anything, but find a

John Graham: 00:27:30

way to serve. Find a way so that your own heart sings from the

John Graham: 00:27:35

meaning of being of service. And that's what makes a life complete.

Howard Brown: 00:27:41

Wow. That's beautiful. That's that's what my

Howard Brown: 00:27:45

show is about. That's what my life is about. So I appreciate

Howard Brown: 00:27:47

that. You've been listening or watching to the shining brightly

Howard Brown: 00:27:51

show, you can reach me at shining brightly.com And you can

Howard Brown: 00:27:54

find a lot about my book, my memoir and a couple other books

Howard Brown: 00:27:57

I've been working on and published. Also, hire me to

Howard Brown: 00:28:02

speak at your event. I'm a great motivational speaker and

Howard Brown: 00:28:05

facilitator. Let me bring some some sunshine to your event. And

Howard Brown: 00:28:10

also this podcast is there but my advocacy, my work in

Howard Brown: 00:28:14

mentorship and leadership and entrepreneurship, cancer and

Howard Brown: 00:28:18

cancer screening cancer treatments. And as well as

Howard Brown: 00:28:21

interfaith work of knowing people that are not like you and

Howard Brown: 00:28:24

choosing to be kind and grateful and and healing and not choosing

Howard Brown: 00:28:29

hate. So this has been a great show, John, you are incredible.

Howard Brown: 00:28:33

I will have all your information in the show notes and on social

Howard Brown: 00:28:36

media, people will reach out to you and just keep keep living.

Howard Brown: 00:28:40

And just I keep telling stories and Keep being you and the

Howard Brown: 00:28:45

adrenaline rush was one thing but you've learned a lot. You've

Howard Brown: 00:28:47

lived a lot and I'm just so glad to know you and thank you for

Howard Brown: 00:28:50

being here.

John Graham: 00:28:51

Thank you for inviting me