GRATEFUL FOR OUR NURSES With Dr. Katie Boston-Leary

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It's Howard Brown. It's the Shining Brightly

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Podcast show. Oh my goodness, I have such an amazing guest I

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always do. But I'm really excited about this show, and so

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I would love to welcome Katie Boston-Leary, how are you today?

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Dr. Katie Boston-Leary: I'm good. Howard, how are you? Thank

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you so much for having me.

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Oh, I'm thrilled. I'm thrilled. So listen, we're

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hitting the end of the summer, and I just, we just recently met

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through LinkedIn. And I actually, you know, was so

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attracted to your LinkedIn portfolio because you work for

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the American Nurses Association, and I have such reverence for

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nurses being a two time stage for cancer patient, and I wanted

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you to come on. And part of this is selfish. I just want to say

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thank you to all the nurses out there for their dedication, for

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their compassion, because they actually got me through. I spent

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a lot of time with my nurses in the infusion room, and you spent

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a lot less time with the docs. You spent a lot of time with the

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nurses. And you know, we would joke, we would cry, and they

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were my go to people for answers. So I'm selfishly having

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you on my podcast. So I just wanted you to know that up

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front. So let me tell people about you a little bit. So Katie

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boss is married. She's got a lot of initials after her name as

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PhD, MBA, M, H, A, R, N, N, E, A, B, C, that's a lot of stuff

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there. So people can look on your LinkedIn for that. But you

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are currently the senior vice president of equity and

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engagement the American Nurses Association, and you've been an

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you are an adjunct professor at the University of Maryland,

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School of Nursing, and also the School of Nursing at East

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Western Reserve University. You're a board member at St

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John's University Health Programs, Hippocratic AI, oh my

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God. You're involved in so much ingenious health and editorial

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advisor in the nursing management so I'm actually

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pretty sure I got the right person here. You've led a task

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force for the nursing staffing Think Tank and Task Force, and

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you've done a lot to forward nursing and analyze the

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marketplace and understand that. And that's why you're here, by

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the way, you are my nurse, subject matter expert, so I'm

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just thrilled to have you. But before we dig in, I need to ask

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you, okay, tell me something that you want to share that

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people may not know about you.

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Dr. Katie Boston-Leary: Oh, so I love that question. I will say I

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MC events or weddings and some Gala, so I'm an MC when I'm not

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a nurse.

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So would you call yourself a celebrant or an

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officiant or again? So

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Dr. Katie Boston-Leary: yeah, like, and it's, you know,

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usually it'll kick in. You know? The best part about that is that

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you get free food and drink, but, yeah, it comes with it,

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but, and you get to dress up. But the way when I kick in is

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when after the ceremony and they're reintroducing the bride

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and groom to the reception, that's when I take over. Um,

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yeah, so I love music. I know a lot of songs because I also

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connect songs with what's happening, and I work with DJ,

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so yeah, I love that work, and I enjoy it. I

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That's cool, and something we didn't know about

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you. So tell me a little bit about your background and and if

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nursing chose you, or you chose nursing,

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Dr. Katie Boston-Leary: yeah, oh boy. I think I can't say that. I

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guess eventually I chose nursing, but I fell into

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nursing. I had no aspirations to be a nurse. I didn't have any

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relatives that were I hadn't had a health scare that made me want

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to which is a typical story, or for myself or a relative. So I

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graduated from high school, I took a year off to find myself,

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and while I was finding myself, I was working at a nursing home

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with my cousin who we were roommates, and I just followed

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her, because, you know, I kind of looked up to her. And then

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while, after about a year working there, gentlemen came

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into the lounge, the lounge where I was having dinner, and

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he said, announced that the county I was we were living in,

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which was in Virginia, was offering free tuition and and

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the cover of expenses to build people in to pursue allied

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health careers. And at the time, I said no, because I was going

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to be an accountant, and this was just a for now gig for me,

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and he threatened me to not show up at work the next day without

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the information. From the college, and I was so

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embarrassed and reluctant at the same time, but I went to the

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school at the last minute, and I was running late to go back to

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work the next day, and I had to take the materials with me, and

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I was just going to take it to him, to shut him up, to show

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that I did it and I but I was exploring another career that I

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thought may be an opportunity for me, which was to be in

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occupational health. But that line was so long and I was

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running late for work, so I went to the shortest line, and that

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was a line to become a registered nurse, and that's how

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I became a nurse. I kept going. They kept calling me, and I kept

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advancing further in the process. And here I am, 31 years

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later in the profession.

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It's incredible. So can you tell me, what do you

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love about nursing? And then we're going to ask a converse

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question. Is that you know what had frustrated you about

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nursing? And you can answer those whatever order you want.

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Dr. Katie Boston-Leary: Sure, I think what I love about nursing

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is the impact that you have on people. Like we're with people

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with the best with your story, Howard, we're with people with

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the best and at the best and worst times of their lives. And

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sometimes you're able to turn the worst time of their lives

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into some of the best times of their lives. And and

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unfortunately, in some cases, people get surprised. It goes

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the other way, especially in, you know, maternal health and

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things like that. But the impact that we have on people, and the

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lasting memory that we have on people as nurses is one of the

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things that I love about the profession. What frustrates me

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sometimes is the fact that we have a shared vision of what

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nursing should be, but we tend to differ on how to get there,

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which tends to be polarizing, and we don't, you know, link

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arms as often as we should. So that's the part that disappoints

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me sometimes, and then I'll add a second is not all patients are

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kind to nurses. Would love to see workplace violence not be a

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thing anymore in terms of patients harming nurses. So

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those are my two that. Wow, yeah.

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So you're immersed in nursing, you're advising,

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you're in academics of it, but also the American Nurses

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Association. Will you share a little bit about that

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organization and what they do? And I have to tell you that I

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dug into the research a little bit. It's a pretty incredible

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organization, and it's representing a lot of people in

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nursing,

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Dr. Katie Boston-Leary: yeah, yeah. We are the premier

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organization that represents the over 5 million nurses in the

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country. We have three arms or three factions, if you will,

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within the enterprise. One is Ana proper, where it's

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government affairs, nursing practice, work, environment,

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innovation. And then we have our credentialing arm, which is

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ANCC, where organizations and individuals who get credentialed

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and and certified. And then we have our foundation, which

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understandably, is where we do philanthropy efforts. So those

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are the three main arms of our organization. We do a lot of

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work to raise issues of nurses to those that can impact the

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profession, whether it's legislative or financially. In

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terms of organizations that are willing to fund a lot of the

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things that we need to do to advance a profession, and we

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also set up standards of excellence and for organizations

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and for nurses as well with the programs we have with

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certifications and some programs we have for mentoring. We are

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doing work to understand the different generations and what

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they need, so we try to cover the gamut, and we also partner

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with other nurses associations. We have organizational

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affiliates that we work with, and we have state affiliates

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from around the country that we also partner with, where there's

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local work being done at the state level,

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I would say I'm super impressed with the amount

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of education and reach and support of the organization.

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It's it's quite impressive. So thanks for sharing that. I

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wanted to get into a little bit of the state of nursing today,

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all right, because we're coming off of a pandemic, and I was

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doing a little research, and I'd like you to, you know, comment

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about where things are at and where things are going, because

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you also mentioned that you have a little bit of technology and

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AI, you know, that. Coming down the line, and it's going to

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affect us all. It's still early, but let's start with what's

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going on in the workplace, and talk about couple of the big

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issues that are facing nurses, good and bad.

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Dr. Katie Boston-Leary: Sure, sure. Well, the number one issue

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that we that has been a challenge to address is really

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building work environments that nurses practice in to become

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healthier and healthier, not from a standpoint of making sure

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they're healthy foods, even though that would be a good

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thing too, but it's really about how the system and the way

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nurses work contributes to them not being healthy and healthy

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from a holistic standpoint, not just physical health, but also

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mental health, some of the compassion fatigue that they

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have to deal with every day, and things like that. So have

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building a healthy work environment is one of the number

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one issues, and and rainbow chasing that we're doing to

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address at least reducing the exodus of talent that's

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happening in nursing, particularly in the place where

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patients are the sickest, in most cases, which are hospitals.

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Um, for sure, yeah. Then you have nurses overall health and

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well being that needs to be improved as well. Um, where

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nurses are not in their best in the best shape is as it relates

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to their their overall health and well being the environment.

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And we're open systems, because they're humans. We have holes.

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So when the environment's not healthy, of course, nurses are

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also not healthy and and even the healthiest environments,

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with what we have to deal with as nurses, you had a great

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outcome, Howard when you know when you had your diagnosis, but

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some not so much. And and nurses carry that, and then it

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compounds over time, because we see our own fragility, or how

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fragile we are as human being, and frail we are because of what

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we see in our patients. And and we carry that with us. I have

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memories from my time in practice that I still can speak

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to with as if it is like it happened yesterday.

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No at Katie catering, I'm one of the miracle

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men. I mean, I get a 4% chance of six months with a stage four

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colorectal cancer diagnosis, and I look in the mirror every day

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and say, I'm blessed, I am lucky, and I am grateful because

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I my cancer burden wasn't too great. I was not called to

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heaven. So I get it, but I the nurses see all sides of it, and

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unfortunately they do see that. And we know that one of the

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particular things that you hear about is that burnout and

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stress, and it's got to be real, right, especially coming off of

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the pandemic, and is that transition translating into like

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shortages of nurses, or are the med schools getting filled up

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again? Could you speak to that?

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Dr. Katie Boston-Leary: Yeah, I can speak to more nursing

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schools, because in nursing programs, we do know that we

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have another dynamic, where nurses, aspiring nurses, are

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turned away somewhere in the neighborhood of 70 to 100,000

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nurses, aspiring nurses that are turned away every year because

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we don't have enough faculty. So we do have that, but we do also

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see that there's a potential because of what the public has

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been exposed to in terms of the challenges that exist in

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healthcare. Some people are actually saying maybe not, and

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we also have nurses that are saying maybe not, and they're

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keeping their license, but they're doing other things so

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but yes, well being and staffing are correlate very much. So we

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collect data and we do research to understand what it

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contributes to nurses overall health and well being,

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positively and negatively, and staffing was one of the number

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one issues that nurses outlined that impacts their well being

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while they're at work, because that really means that you have

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to work harder. You're worried that they're you're worried

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about the care that you're going to provide. You worry about your

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license. There's so many things that come to mind when you don't

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have the right staffing. Nurses want to be safe. They also want

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to be seen, and they want to be supported. So those are key

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things that has to be addressed for nurses to want to stay in

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the profession.

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Yeah, no, very, very valid. Also, you know, the

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hospitals themselves, they listen you're treating patients.

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So they tend to get dirty. They need to be cleaned. There's

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sometimes lifting involved. I know that if you're you know,

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turning patients over, no one's around. You're doing it

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yourself, and that's probably not the smartest decision, but

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the patient needs to be turned over so they don't get bed

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stores and so safety on the job and all that as well. And so.

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I've, you know, spent quite a bit of time. And you know what?

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I have to tell you, they're the nurses are one of the best and

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busiest multitaskers. I know they're doing like, seven things

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at once, unfortunately. And that's a hard, hard burden to

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keep up constantly and to keep up. And, you know, everybody

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thinks they want the nurse right now. They want their nurse. Wow.

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And the nurses like taking care of potentially five to seven, I

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don't know 1010, assigned bodies. That's a lot, so I see

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that

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Dr. Katie Boston-Leary: probably not 10, but yeah, that's one of

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the research shows that it and you make a great point, nurses

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have to contend with so much at the same time. But our data also

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shows that's part of the moral distress that nurses have,

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because they leave every day realizing that they didn't get

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to the things that they really should, should do during those

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shifts that they have to work. And it's important to understand

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that that is contributing to their that burnout piece,

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because you don't feel that you're contributing, you don't

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feel that you're making a difference. And I'll never

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forget, a nursing student mentioned to me in one of my

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talks that she's been she's had a number of careers before she

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got into nursing, and she said there's not a job that I've seen

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that requires so much from one person within a short period of

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time. So there's so much that we have to address in that space

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and and we have to address how we can reduce the physical

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burden and cognitive burden that nurses have to carry. We

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acknowledge that the the emotional burdens will be there

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because we want to absorb your pain and a lot of what you're

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dealing with when you are not in your best state, but the

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physical and cognitive burdens. We can certainly do work there

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to remove those, or at least mitigate those.

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Yeah, well, I say the compassion that they offer

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to me, I was trying to offer that back because they have

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families and lives outside of the workplace. It's a job, it's,

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it's, it's income, but we need to have that compassion, you

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know, go two ways. It's that. So I, you know, when I think of,

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you know a nurse, you know, you think of Florence Nightingale,

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but you have a nurse role model.

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Dr. Katie Boston-Leary: I do i and this is someone in our

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history, particularly for black nurses, but Mary Mahoney is

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mine. She we there. There's very limited that's out there in

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terms of her history, but she was the first black nurse to

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graduate from a formal program in the US. And from what we know

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about her, she was a small in stature type of person, but big

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in terms of impact and power, particularly towards the end of

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her life and and organizing and really being a part of the

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efforts for women to be able to vote and and even though she was

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trained formally in an institution because of her race,

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she wasn't allowed to practice in those same institutions that

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impacted her livelihood. And when she died, she didn't have

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much to her name, but she was a proud woman, and she was known

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for always buying burial plots for people that could not

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afford. And even though she passed away without having much,

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she made sure she had hers. But there's so much in between birth

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and death for her in her story that really makes me want to

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stand tall because I didn't have it as bad as she did. But also

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know that that pride and, you know, sticking my chest out and

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and having my chin up during bad times, I think of her, and I

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say, I I, these are, these are, these are now nowhere near what

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she had to contend with. So I can, I can win this battle of

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war. And if I don't, I'll come back another day.

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I love it, and I'm going to actually put that in

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the show notes and incorporate that, do a little research and

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and share that with the audience of listeners and people watching

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as well. Fascinating. I again, I learned something new, and now

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I'm going to pursue a little more in depth there. So I'd like

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you to we're coming close to the end of the show, but I do want

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to mention this community that you guys have, healthy nurses,

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healthy nation. Could you talk a little bit about

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Dr. Katie Boston-Leary: that? Yeah, healthy nurse. Healthy

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nation is a free program open to anyone. Even though it's for

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nurses and its title is such, it's open to anyone to be be a

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part of our community. We do challenges every month where

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we'll do drink water challenges, and you get a text message that

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will say, this is a challenge to drink water. So make sure you do

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this is how much you drink every day. We have a challenge right

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now where nurses should see themselves as patients. And you

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know, initially you read that, you think about that what we

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don't want that. But actually it's really to help with

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stimulating self care for you to really care for yourself as much

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as or close to the way you care for others. We have that, we

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have a social media community that we've built that's 400,000

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nurses strong or. People strong, where we hear people exchanging

Howard Brown: 00:20:02

ideas on how they maintain their health or sustain their health.

Howard Brown: 00:20:07

And we also offer a heat map survey that you can complete

Howard Brown: 00:20:12

that we just revised, where you can see how you compare in six

Howard Brown: 00:20:17

domains of health to other people in our database, other

Howard Brown: 00:20:21

nurses in our database. So you can take it again after you make

Howard Brown: 00:20:25

some changes to see whether you've improved. So I invite

Howard Brown: 00:20:29

everyone to check it out. Check it out. Our website is hnhn.org

Howard Brown: 00:20:34

easy. Hnhn.org That's awesome. Well, we are at

Howard Brown: 00:20:38

that time of the show. I'm going to ask you to put on your

Howard Brown: 00:20:41

glasses. You've got some cool white ones like me. So we're

Howard Brown: 00:20:44

together here, and this is the shining brightly spotlight on

Howard Brown: 00:20:49

you, Katie. And I want you to tell people how the best could

Howard Brown: 00:20:53

reach you, get in touch with you, and then share some

Howard Brown: 00:20:56

inspiration as we close out the show.

Howard Brown: 00:20:58

Dr. Katie Boston-Leary: Well, I'm on LinkedIn, so you can

Howard Brown: 00:21:00

certainly find me there. And then I'm also on on x, which

Howard Brown: 00:21:05

used to be Twitter, Katie K boss, with the ad sign before

Howard Brown: 00:21:10

it. And what I would like to share, hmm, I would say it's

Howard Brown: 00:21:20

about leading. And this is a quote that I did get from

Howard Brown: 00:21:24

Reverend Raphael Warnock a couple years ago when he won his

Howard Brown: 00:21:29

election. He talked about leading and loving. And he says,

Howard Brown: 00:21:35

to lead the people, you need to love the people, to love the

Howard Brown: 00:21:38

people, you need to know the people and to know the people

Howard Brown: 00:21:41

you need to walk amongst the people. That's what we should

Howard Brown: 00:21:44

try to be. Because, after all, we're all just trying to be

Howard Brown: 00:21:47

better humans every day.

Howard Brown: 00:21:50

I love it. Wow, wow, wow. That was impressive,

Howard Brown: 00:21:54

amazing. I want to actually close out the show and just tell

Howard Brown: 00:21:58

you that. I have to tell you that nurses and people that

Howard Brown: 00:22:02

choose that career and way of life are just angels on earth,

Howard Brown: 00:22:09

and I'm so thankful that I've been able to be blessed in the

Howard Brown: 00:22:14

two different cancer bouts, and even when I go into the

Howard Brown: 00:22:17

emergency room that you know, normally getting very great

Howard Brown: 00:22:20

compassionate care and and I just, this is why I wanted to

Howard Brown: 00:22:25

feature you on the on the show. So this has been the shining

Howard Brown: 00:22:28

brightly show. You can reach me, Howard Brown, Mr. Shining

Howard Brown: 00:22:32

brightly. At shining brightly.com. And there you can

Howard Brown: 00:22:35

find my book. And it's, it's really a life guide to living a

Howard Brown: 00:22:39

resilient life with hope. Hope being the key there. There's

Howard Brown: 00:22:43

just fantastic stories that you can apply to your own making

Howard Brown: 00:22:47

Dr. Katie Boston-Leary: Hope is making a comeback that was in

Howard Brown: 00:22:50

Michelle Obama's speech. So there you go. They get

Howard Brown: 00:22:52

a huge comeback at the DNC, right? And so it's

Howard Brown: 00:22:54

exciting times. And so I think I was a little ahead of the game

Howard Brown: 00:22:58

there. But hope is so important. It's the fuel that gets us

Howard Brown: 00:23:02

through the darkness. And Ben also, if you want me to come and

Howard Brown: 00:23:05

speak at your event or fundraiser or workshop, always

Howard Brown: 00:23:08

willing to entertain that as well. And then certainly this

Howard Brown: 00:23:12

podcast is reaching lots of people, but my advocacy is so

Howard Brown: 00:23:15

important to me in the cancer world, in the entrepreneurship

Howard Brown: 00:23:19

world and interfaith world as well. So please, I'm

Howard Brown: 00:23:22

interactive. Reach out to me, and we'll close out the show by

Howard Brown: 00:23:26

just letting you know that if you choose to shine brightly,

Howard Brown: 00:23:29

just a little bit each day for yourself, make sure that you're

Howard Brown: 00:23:33

all you're all feeling good, you know, emotionally, physically,

Howard Brown: 00:23:37

you know career wise and in relationships, and if you

Howard Brown: 00:23:40

actually go lift up others, which nurses do, and Katie, you

Howard Brown: 00:23:43

do all the time, lift up others, use that light, okay, we become

Howard Brown: 00:23:47

a force multiplier for good and positive change. And yes, okay,

Howard Brown: 00:23:51

the world will become a better place. It's just been a

Howard Brown: 00:23:54

pleasure. Thank you so much, Katie Boston-Leary

Howard Brown: 00:23:57

Dr. Katie Boston-Leary: Thanks for being the miracle that you are.

Howard Brown: 00:24:01

I am blessed. So I am lucky. So keep shining

Howard Brown: 00:24:03

brightly out there always, and I will say thank you to my read

Howard Brown: 00:24:07

the spirit magazine as well as front edge publishing, and then

Howard Brown: 00:24:11

amplify you and the diamond moments magazine, who helped me

Howard Brown: 00:24:14

look good and feel good all the time. So again, you've been

Howard Brown: 00:24:18

listening and watching to the shiny, brightly podcast and

Howard Brown: 00:24:21

again. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.